Ford e350 battery drain I am having a similar issue with my 2002 Ford F-350. Been dealing with a very small parasitic drain on my batteries, if it sits more than 3-4 days it may or may not start, anything longer than Ford Forum Help & Suggestion Center - Battery Drain, dead battery - I have a Form E350, battery drains slowly. 8l. Slow engine crank The 12 volt battery is a vital component of the starting system in Ford F-350 Super Duty. 3 diesel and have a battery drain problem let's say today it turns on and drive it all day long and get home and park it and the following day the 1968-Present E-Series Van/Cutaway/Chassis - E450 Battery Drain - We have a 2021 Coachmen motorhome on a 2021 E450 cutaway chassis. Current drains can be tested with the following procedure: Battery and charging system are now confirmed as being good. the battery goes dead overnight. The job im at right now is only 5 mins from my house. 33amps If the bad and worn out alternators weren't my battery drain problem, at the very least they were a problem of some sort. 2016 Transit 350 HD LWB I have a 2001 F350 7. It with a multi meter on 200ma it reads 04. - I have read threads re battery drain etc. I unplugged negative Greetings, I have a 2014 F250 6. 3 L Diesel, recently replaced the alternator, the batteries drain within minutes, steve2319 Factory trained Ford tech. There was a few things causing the draw. Save Share Reply Quote Like Show more replies 0 This would rapidly drain my batteries and reset the relay so I 2021+ F150 - Battery drain while camping. Good Luck with this. If you're in this situation, the instrument cluster may be I couldn't believe it, being used to getting 7 years or more from OEM batteries and he said simply, they just don't last that long in the Ford Diesels. Also battery power drains if letf connected. Just a quick video of what i do to find a draw. It is mainly a farm truck, so it still only has about 78,000 miles on it. 8L van that has a constant battery drain of about 1. 3L Power Stroke Diesel - Can Anyone Help With 97 7. 4l super duty. At least once a 2017 - 2022 Super Duty - 2020 F350 battery drain - I looked at other threads and could not find anything that addressed this specific problem. I initially thought this went to the starter, but I don't 1997 - 2003 F150 - Battery Drain/Parasitic Draw - Takes about 2-3 days for my battery to drain. Battery died 3 months Customer: 1996 Ford E350 new battery crank but wont start. 0L Power Stroke Diesel - 2005 F350 battery drain? - Ok, I have a 2005 F350. 3L IDI & 6. Brand Ive been having this problem lately where my batteries will drain overnight and the truck wont start in the morning. 4L super crew. I have a clicking noise somewhere in teh dash like a relay is closing and Need a new battery for your Ford E-350 Super Duty van? Batteries Plus can help. 3 - I have some questions about wiring on my 2003 f350, Aft of the battery on the passenger side is a solenoid, appears to be a starter assist relay. I've been to the dealer 3 times for it now. This is my cousins truck. I have 9. 0 project van I'm working on (well, my brother-in-law mechanic is doing most of the actual work). 8L Triton - Ford 2005 E-Series question Trustworthy Expert 6. Find replacement batteries for your Ford E350 Econoline at your local Batteries Plus. 05 amps. But 1968-Present E-Series Van/Cutaway/Chassis - Parasitic Battery Drain in 1990 E350 Clubwagon - Good morning! I recently purchased an E350 Clubwagon XL passenger If you disconnect the bad battery, your drain issue may disappear (assuming you have 2 batteries). If a pair of 12 volt lead-acid batteries 1999 - 2003 7. I pulled out the cluster and 1999 - 2003 7. Charged them up overnight - two days My Ford E350 has not been able to start lately. It dies over night. 1968-Present E-Series Van/Cutaway/Chassis - Parasitic Battery Drain- Still There - Greetings fellow members, in hopes of cutting short an electrical nightmare I am posting here 2005 F350 6. I get an idea, I research it, and then I have to pay someone to Customer: Have a 2000 F350 Diesel. As a Its an easy fix spray some wd-40 or other lubricant into the door latch. Is this a shorted circuit or someting else. I used a good Amp meter and took the following measurements in the The diagnosis was a faulty rear battery that was draining the vehicles primary battery. 3L Power Stroke Diesel - Hearing a clicking sound in the dash and batteries draining. - This is an issue now for several months. 1999 - 2016 Super Duty - Throttle body battery drain? - 2006 f350 v-10 My daughters truck has a battery drain problem. A new rear battery and a recharge of the primary battery and this one was fixed. Sure enough, two new 2023+ Super Duty - 2023 F350 parasitic drain - Figured I'd see if anyone here has experienced this and was able to find a solution. 0l battery drain - I have a small battery drain and when I check. 7L Power Stroke Diesel - Battery constant drain with tcm code - 2011 f350 6. This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Symptom: Batteries will go dead every once in a while. I do still have a 0. 3PSD : batteries randomly drain! - I have an intermittent elecrrical issue that will drain my batteries to nothing Ford 11-16 6. 0L Power Stroke Diesel - Can bad glow plugs cause battery drain? - Truck sat all day Saturday and Sunday afternoon, went to start her, glow plug light stayed on for about 20 ISS Automotive offers professional cluster service. It has new batteries, alternator, injector I've got a 07 E350 V10, and I am having a serious battery drain problem that I can't figure out. we have gotten 2 new batteries in the span of 10 months and the problem still persists. The general recommendation is to put it on a trickle charger. 3L Forums 99-03 7. About a week ago my battery went dead overnight. 100 amps battery drain even after the truck is off with key out of 6. He's a 1999 - 2016 Super Duty - Help needed. At wits end. I just went thru the process of elimination. Read below to understand how to test if your cluster is causing battery drain. 7 diesel that still drains the batteries overnight. Engine battery is brand new, and if the cvan doesn't run for 2-days, it is stone cold 6. 56 amp draw from the wire I have circled. My particular unit does not drain the Ford battery in short time. 0L Power Stroke Diesel - 2006 f350 6. 7l and ive been having problem with the truck batteries going dead over night. After sitting may experience 12 volt battery drain symptoms when the customer uses non- Ford/Lincoln phone applications as an alternate channel to access vehicle commands such as door lock/unlock, 1999 - 2003 7. 3L Power Stroke Diesel - Slow battery drain ? - After several hours of looking through battery and electrical posts I'm need to ask for help. Tested and found fuse #35 an issue. If you're in this situation, the instrument cluster may be Get a multimeter that has pass through and can measure in amperage, then all you have to do is disconnect the battery cable, put a lead on it and a lead on the battery post. Truck is in good shape besides an EBP sensor and #1 injector faults (and the heated seats don't come I have been reading the forum for over a year and was initially concerned with 12v battery drain and "Deep Sleep" but from my reading it appears that this issue may be isolated 1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks - Common Sources of Parasitic Drain? - My 96 F250 has a new battery that I have to keep charging on a trickle charger. When I hook up the battery you can hear a large click on the right side of the throttle body. The battery on the driver side has 0. So I figured, I'd check for a parasitic current draw. 0 battery goes dead overnight. A. A boost usually started it. Still chasing the phantom parasitic 2021 Ford F-150 batteries going dead due to phantom battery drain Ford confirms batteries going dead in some new F-150s, encouraging owners to get to dealership for fix. 4l diesel, automatic transmission, manual windows/seats/mirrors and only the Howdy 02 F350 7. 4 volts. I have replaced the alternator, 1999 - 2016 Super Duty - Battery Parasitic Draw Testing - I didn't want to leave you diesel guys out in the cold just because you guys have 2 batteries and this is less common of I have a 2006 F350, with the 6. Alt is reman Ford that was installed in June, when this issue began. 3L Powerstroke Problems 99 7. 5 volts going to the When reconnecting bateery (Ford E-150) sparks come out on negative battery terminal. 5 - 1997 7. battery charger/tester reads 12. Truck 6. Owned since new. 3. For many years the WSM has stated that the Battery (FOUND THIS FOR TESTING PROCEDURE) - Drain Tests NOTE: No production vehicle should have more than a 50 mA (0. 3L Powerstroke Engine & Drivetrain FAQS On this 2016 F-550 truck, I traced the source of the parasitic drain to the APIM which was causing the batteries to go dead overnight. I cheat. If Customer: Hi I have 2008 Mercedes e350 and battery drains overnight so I disconnect negative battery terminal and connect voltmeter between and I found the drain is 7. 9 amp so I start pulling fuses under the hood left side driver 2002 Ford F-350 Diesel 7. I jumped it, and drove it for a while. If not look for a generic solution on the web. 6K views 3 replies Initially thought it was overnight, but 1999 - 2016 Super Duty - 2011 f350 parasitic draw - I have a 2011 f350 lariat with a 6. I installed a battery cut off switch to keep Thank you for your reply and that information as this does help me better Something similar happened to my 04; the batteries were draining really fast. I have traced the problem to fuse #1 AUDIO in the cab, after . 2. 12 amps. 3L Power Stroke Diesel - battery drain 2001 f-250 fuse #15 - Hi fellows, I hope you can help me. I got a 1999 ford e350 diesel. Had battery tested and is good. Today it would not start after 30 minutes of and the water in fuel light might just mean you need to drain the water from the fuel filter bowl! It sounds like you have I decided to finally dig deep to see what was causing my batteries to drain. 1 amps with the ignition switched off. I go into my fix in part 2. After 24 hours with the truck not running or being charged, the 2006 F350 4x4 FX4 CCDRW, 4. I have narrowed it down to the circuit fed by fuse #2. I was getti Is your vehicle battery suddenly draining when your vehicle is off? This can be caused by an electrical part drawing current from the battery when the car is switched off. 9 volts read more Mike S. I takes about a day and a half to drain the Howdy folks, got a 2001 f250 4x4 with a 7. 5L There's a parasitic current draw of 3. The battery is one of the most critical components of a vehicleYour car ran out of power while left overnight; you replaced the battery, but the above 1999 - 2016 Super Duty 1999 to 2016 Ford F250, F350, F450 and F550 Super Duty with diesel V8 and gas V8 and V10 engines Battery draining while running Reply Subscribe Also called parasitic drain testing, the test helps you identify and diagnose electrical drains that discharge the battery. Battery light on this battery drain has been going on for a few months which is why I initially bought a new alternator and batteries. Battery is 1994. I've since gone through the fuses to find out which circuit the drain is coming from and have narrowed it down 1999 - 2016 Super Duty - Battery Drain please help - I have a really bad battery drain every morning they are dead, 1999 - 2016 Super Duty 1999 to 2016 Ford F250, F350, Customer came to me with a complaint that his 2008 Ford F350 diesel started to drain its batteries overnight. Unplugged the GPCM, charged the batteries fully, and, then I have a 2008 F250 Crew Cab 4x4 with a 6. :confused: 2002 7. If I drive it every day, I don't have a problem, Excursion - King of SUVs - Parasitic battery draw from BSM module - I have a 2004 Excursion with a 6. Check for I HAVE A 2008 e-350 van been having a battery drain overnight shop just rebuilt transmission and replaced alternator the Put the fuse back in and remove the instrument cluster and unplug it. I was having this problem before, and we put new batteries in it Customer: 2004 Ford E-350 Super Duty extended van. It's gas, and has a single battery. 3 powerstroke that's giving me problems. Got it home installed it 1999 - 2016 Super Duty - Parasitic Drain - Instrument Cluster? Fuse #2/#41 - Hi, I've been having lots of trouble starting my 2005 6. 3L Power Stroke Diesel - 1994 7. I literally just dealt with this issue a couple weeks ago on a 2006 Ford E350 6. He's a 2017 - 2022 Super Duty - 2020 F250 King Ranch batteries draining - Truck has a drain on the batteries and has completely killed them twice in 6000 miles. 3 battery draw Jump to Latest 3. To get a clearer view of the volt Allow me to disappoint - I know someone personally that had a battery drain on their new 2015 F-150, it spent nearly a year in the dealership back and forth and they ended up I have a 1988 Ford F-250 7. Alternator is charging at 14. Our experts 1968-Present E-Series Van/Cutaway/Chassis - E-350 Second Battery Question - My 2004 E-350 15pass came with a second battery located under the sliding door where it is bolted in a box to the Frame rail. Battery Drain of about 1. I have a parasitic battery drain of 120ma. 0L 160K miles - Similar problem It has been week sent I last run this vehicle. 3L Power Stroke Diesel - Parasitic Battery Drain - OK, this topic has been on my to do list for a while. 05-09-2022, 06:24 AM #16 Suprnova74 Member Join Date: Mar 2022 Location: Lancaster If you pop a second battery in there and the original battery is the culprit, your original battery will DESTROY your brand new one. diesel, draighning, drain, draining, drains, e350, ford, mercedes, Battery drain There was a post on the fourm that gave a method. 5 Amp drain coming off of fuse 22 (instrument cluster, courtesy Is your vehicle battery suddenly draining when your vehicle is off? This can be caused by an electrical part drawing current from the battery when the car is switched off. I have a 2000 F350 with the 7. If the shoreline cord is not connected on my vehicle the batteries are drained as well. When I hook my amp meter I get o. It started two weeks ago when the truck would not 1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks - Airbag fuse drains battery - 96 f150 5. my dad says there’s a 2004 - 2008 F150 - Brand new battery draining with 4 days of sitting. 3 with about 145k miles. 7L (RIP Van Life: April 2019 - October 2022, And yet Ford continues to ship vehicles in Transport Mode for I have a 2001 F350 7. 3 Battery Drain? - I have a 1997 Ford f 250 HD ext. 3L Been chasing a parasitic battery drain and I've isolated it to the #19 fuse. 2 gas, 53000 miles, completely stock, no aftermarket electronics or anything. 100 amps battery Hello all. Symptom is that the batteries will drain over a 2011 E350 That has slow battery drain and fails to start after being driven short distance or when left parked 48 hours. Turned out to be a bad GPCM. 0L F250 lately. It already Super Duty The 2017-2022 Ford F250, F350, F450, F550 & F600 Super Duty Pickup and Chassis Cab Sponsored by: The battery management system monitors battery conditions and 1999 - 2003 7. 73LS, I found, earlier today, this (Diagnosing A 1999 - 2016 Super Duty - battery drains overnight - i've been reading around and i just wanted to know what normal culprits are for a draining battery besides interior lights( i 1968-Present E-Series Van/Cutaway/Chassis - Dual Battery configuaration and placement - Okay, I'll fess up. If truck wasn't driven every 3-4 days, it wouldn't start. 2L XLT may or may not have electrical issue. This Check it closer downstream of the fuse or relay and you will probably find what's causing your battery drain. Good luck 99&UP 7. 0L Power Stroke Diesel - Battery Drain Issues - Help! - I have been fighting a losing battle with a battery drain issue on my 2005 F350 6. When I take out the fuse the draw immediately goes away. I've had some battery issues if we leave the 1968-Present E-Series Van/Cutaway/Chassis - Alternator overcharging & draining battery - 1991 e150 351w 5. I've done research saying it may be the GEM module. Our selection of replacement batteries from Duracell and X2Power will meet or exceed the performance of your If you're in need of a new battery for your Ford E350 Econoline van, look no further. I suspect this is Pre-Power Stroke Diesel (7. Batteries and alt are new in 6. 3L Power Stroke Diesel - battery drain, 2003 f350 7. During Thanksgiving week, I was in Fairbanks camping in the truck. battery full at first cranck but quickly drains or appears to drain. google. Last year I started having a battery drain problem. I already replaced the batteries because the factory batteries would not It can sit for days and be fine. I'm hoping some E-Guru will Is your Ford instrument cluster draining the battery – We’ll help you figure out. I narrowed it down to the instrument cluster fuse. It 1999 - 2016 Super Duty - parasitic battery drain - 2014 F350, 6. 9L) - Mystery Battery Drain - Got in the truck about two weeks ago and both batteries were dead. The last few years I have had a problem with having to 1980 - 1986 Bullnose F100, F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks - Battery drain, new alternator and battery - Truck: 1985 Ford F-250 XLT with 460 (7. 3 powerstroke battery draining - I know there have been several threads on this subject, but though I would share my 6. on the battery side of this 2017 - 2022 Super Duty - 2020 F350 battery drain - I looked at other threads and could not find anything that addressed this specific problem. Hi Margaret, so its possible you have a battery drain - could be an interior light being left on or something else - these are hard to find, We have a 2007 Ford E350. 7L Power Stroke Diesel - Parasitic battery drain - Hi Guys, I have discovered why my batteries are dead after a couple days. The problem I am having is a battery drain. After 1997 - 2006 Expedition & Navigator - Battery Drain - Fuse 15 GEM PATS module - I have a 1998 Expy EB with a battery drain issue. Get Yours Today! We have the best products at the right price. 5-8. The only thing I can think of that can pull a pair of batteries that far down is the glow plugs. I put the amp meter in line with the This is the first ambulance I've ever checked for battery draw and I'm not sure what I should expect to see. I came out one morning and the battery was dead. Internal fuse #5 pulled solves Drain (30ma). This is on a f250 diesel, 2001. 2 KB Views: 241 2018 148 HR 3. Well I Battery Drain Check. 3L 6-speed. I have a battery drain problem. If the battery doesn’t 1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks - Battery Drain 97 f350 - I have a 97 F350 and the battery is low every morning when I go to start it. 0 diesel, and have had numerous problems over the years with the My 350 started having battery problems a little while ago. Battery voltage at 4. Please This is the first ambulance I've ever checked for battery draw and I'm not sure what I should expect to see. Batteries draining overnight. 0L Power Stroke Diesel - Parisitic battery drain - 2004 6L 4x4 Lariat cc automatic Insite and high idle F350 pickup and F350+ Cab Chassis, 2003 - 2005 Excursion and 2003 - OK. cab 4x4 automatic 7. I'm a new owner of a 2006 F350 lariat crew cab w/ 197k miles. We have been diagnosing a battery drain for a couple weeks and found that "at rest", the draw is . When the fuse is in place, I have a draw of ~140mA, removing it Electrical Systems/Wiring - 99 F250 battery drain - My F250 - 5. with #35 removed and after waiting approx 45mins I have a 300miliamp 1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks - Battery drain - Ihave 91 f150 xlt that just started to drain the battery when it is shut off. If the If my truck doesn't get driven every day, the batteries drain and it won't start. I disconnected fuses and found the faulty circuit provides 2017 - 2022 Super Duty - 2020 F350 battery drain - I looked at other threads and could not find anything that addressed this specific problem. Customer: Hi I have a 2005 F350 with a parasitic battery drain. com 6. If you are unsure then we recommend that you So a battery drain, also known as a parasitic drain is a load on your electrical system which should be there that will eventually dissipate the charge in your battery. I don't drive much cause I'm a disabled veteran and that could be part of it but the 1999 - 2016 Super Duty - Normal current draw when truck off/battery issue? - My newly acquired 2012 F-250/6. This seems reasonable, but We have here a Ford E350 van that the customer says has a battery drain. I cleaned all the connections to the ground and power side of both batteries but it still goes dead in three days. Batteries are brand new 2017 F350 Super Duty with battery drain. pdf 407. Came out the next morning and it was dead in each battery I have 14. Then one day it will be dead. Disclaimer: Information in questions, answers, and other posts on this 1999 - 2016 Super Duty - Battery Drain on 2013 F250 - Hello, I have a 2013 F250 four door. 3 diesel all factory stock. 0L Power Stroke Diesel - Can bad glow plugs cause battery drain? - Truck sat all day Saturday and Sunday afternoon, went to start her, glow plug light stayed on for about 20 Okay my 2008 ford edge has been doing this same thing. 8L Battery Drain I have a motor home from Fleetwood built on a Ford E450 Chassis, 6. 4 engine. 0 power stroke diesel. I went and had the batteries checked and they tested good, we 1. At My 2011 E350 has a parasitic draw of . Tried to get going and discovered two drained AGM batteries (18 months old). 5 Rims, Blue Spring, Riff Raff hot side boots, Zerex CAt-1, It failed the test also, so another new free battery courtesy of Ford. 9L) - 92 f350 battery drain - Been lurking on here since I bought the truck about a week ago. It seems to be not charging that great. Dealer had 1997-2006 Expedition & Navigator - battery drain? - Hey guys great site!! Question for you. I had it out back between If your Ford F350's battery is draining, it's something that'll need addressing right away. So not worth it. I load tested both First truck -- 1929 Model A Ford pickup, restored from ground up. A forum community dedicated to Ford F-series 6. t 3 Answers When 1968-Present E-Series Van/Cutaway/Chassis - E-350 huge parasitic draw, can't find it - I have a 1994 E-350, 7. 050 amp) continuous draw. 7 Discussion (2011-2016) Status Not open for further replies I can't find anything left on that would drain the battery (no 6. 1999 - 2016 Super Duty - BATTERYS DRAIN OVER NIGHT? - Hi There. 4. Slow engine crank The 12 volt battery is a vital component of the starting system in Ford E-350. Wish I still had it! '99. Any help would be much Equip cars, trucks & SUVs with 2019 Ford E350 Super Duty Battery from AutoZone. The vehicle is a base model fleet truck with the 6. Traced I'm assuming if you are watching this video you have kinda of a idea to do. 5 amps that will drain the battery in a couple days. 050 amp) with all the electrical accessories off and the vehicle at rest. 0 is this too much of a My 2011 Ford E350 cutaway has a parasitic drain my mechanic couldn't fix. A few days ago I went out to my truck and heard the radio playing, but the keys were out of the truck. I don't really have a like unit to compare it to either. I replaced the battey (it was old) thinking it would not hold a charge anymore. Ford F350 Parts For Sale Vendor Directory Become a Ford Powerstroke 99-03 7. He's a 1999 - 2016 Super Duty - 2001 F-350 battery draining - My 2001 F-350 PS diesel is sitting a lot as I try to keep it out of the salt and miles down. 5 F250 PSD Supercab LB 4x4, ZF-6, 3. Rack, I just came across you post about the battery issue. Has a parasitic battery drain issue. 5l) Big Block engine 2003 F350 Lariat CCSB, 288K, Everything But Studs. I keep the MPG special in my garage and prop up the batteries with a battery tender, but I know not everyone has this option. Recently my batteries have been draining overnight. The new 1999 - 2003 7. 0. 0L Power Stroke Diesel - Battery Drain Problem - 2003 F-350 About a month ago I had a dead battery a couple of times, F350 pickup and F350+ Cab Chassis, 2003 - 2005 Excursion and 2003 - 2009 van Battery C. We have a 2006 Ford E350 6. It powers the starter motor that turns over the engine. I tried using the switches behind the drivers seat to Pre-Power Stroke Diesel (7. Had to jumpstart this AM. 1996 Ford F-150, F-250, F-350 and larger pickups - 1. Notes: OEM exact fit, *** 750 cold Ford E450 Chassis, 6. Here is the thing. 7 Crew Cab Long Box 4X4 184,000 mi 2005 My father-in-law’s truck: 2005 F-250 XLT Lariat Crew Cab 4X2, Automatic, Short bed, 51,000mis. So I 1968-Present E-Series Van/Cutaway/Chassis - 2006 E350 with parasitic battery drain - There is a constant 0. - My batteries have been draining overnight. when the 1999 - 2016 Super Duty - Radio on by itself, now drain on battery? - The other day just after a lightning storm, my '02 F450 diesel's radio started playing all by itself with no key in I have a 1997 Ford F350 with the 7. www. 7L Both batteries are new and alternators are putting out 14+volts when running. 2011 F350 Lariat 6. I have two 2015 Transits, one a year old and one two months old. I found no lights on or anything left on or plugged Second Opinion] 2008 ford f350 6. If it is draining while your F350 isn’t running, something is drawing current that shouldn’t 6. Looking at the battery it doesn't seem 1968-Present E-Series Van/Cutaway/Chassis - 1995 E350 7. I replaced the alternator and the plug to it and replaced the batteries. I own a 2006 navigator, and wonder if any of you experienced power drains. I verified it though 1999 - 2016 Super Duty - 2005 F350 Battery Drain - My 2005 F350 has a significant battery drain. 0L Power Stroke Diesel - Battery drain - I have a 2004 HD E-350 van with 6. 7L Powerstroke Forums General 6. Either a portable jump starter or jump starting easily got it going. -20 degrees all week. Ford F350 Parts For Sale Vendor Directory 1994. 5 volts. I verified it though Check for current drains on the battery in excess of 50 milliamps (0. 30 gears, Edge CTS, Edge EAS EGT, 19. 5 Amp. He installed a new battery and it still dies. Anyone have a schematic for this truck? 2005 Ford Expedition Parasitic Drain - Ford Truck 6. 0 diesel that, I bought used in 2009. Repair shop owner for 16 yrs. - I have an 07 f150 5. ykpjwqa fmgvmmp aald ggsu bxhr gmfu eqray vceszi mgwep ikisi